Open in new window / Try shogun cloud
--- Log opened Mon Apr 08 00:00:26 2013
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n4nd0http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2934#comic :D09:50
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blackburnsonne|work: wiking: n4nd0: 10 hours left!10:23
n4nd0blackburn: yeah!10:23
n4nd0let's keep ourselves crossed10:23
n4nd0not just our fingers10:23
blackburnI am not that flexible!10:24
sonne|workI hope that doesn't affect # toilet visits10:27
sonne|workblackburn: Any idea how one can modify the registration form for the workshop?10:28
sonne|workmore specifically10:28
sonne|workthe choices ml expert / bloody beginner10:28
sonne|worketc10:28
blackburnsonne|work: what do you mean?10:29
blackburnah10:29
blackburnForm - Edit form10:29
blackburnas usual10:29
sonne|workahh ok - because I have a parse error for Acknowledged with some concepts of machine learning10:30
sonne|workI guess - this means machine learning expert?10:31
sonne|work^ blackburn or what?10:31
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blackburnsonne|work: your LL(1) gets stucked too often!10:34
blackburnjsut fix it!10:34
sonne|workblackburn: yeah, I need some context sensitive grammar10:35
sonne|workblackburn: I don't know how to properly fix it b'cause I don't know what you meant10:35
sonne|workanyway I am writing sth in there10:35
sonne|workdone10:36
blackburnsonne|work: your guess is correct10:37
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sonne|workblackburn: soulmate!10:40
blackburnsonne|work: you've got to learn runglish10:43
blackburn:D10:43
sonne|worksorry I only speed denglish10:44
sonne|workspeak10:44
blackburnno you have learnt the basics of runglish10:44
blackburnotherwise you weren't able to understand my alphanumerical sequencies10:44
sonne|workblackburn: must be due to the roots of these languages being ENGLISH!10:56
blackburnsonne|work: no my language origins from mongolian warriors!10:57
sonne|workand my origins is Teutonian! It was my grand-grand-grand-grand-grand father who stopped Cesar in the this battle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teutoburg_Forest10:59
blackburnsonne|work: not grand^n enough!11:01
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gsomixkonbanwa :)19:26
@sonney2kkonitschiwa!19:33
gsomixsonney2k: so, about one hour before berserk vodka drinking time19:52
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@sonney2kgsomix, yay! we are in!20:56
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n4nd0sonney2k: so what kind of news do we have?21:13
@sonney2khttps://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc201321:13
n4nd0wow21:13
n4nd0good news indeed21:13
n4nd0yeah the page was loading while I asked :)21:13
@sonney2kn4nd0, please twitter about it and blog about it!21:13
@sonney2kn4nd0, I am changing the website21:14
n4nd0sonney2k: updating the we are planning to participate to we are participating or sth else?21:14
@sonney2kn4nd0, add another message - we are proud to be part of GSoC 2013!21:15
@sonney2kn4nd0, but I meant your own blog :D21:15
n4nd0sonney2k: sure, I am on it21:15
n4nd0I am writting in shogun's twitter, then blog, then g+21:15
n4nd0my browser is only charging 25 accepted orgs and shogun is among them, we must be really important :D21:16
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n4nd0blackburn: vodking!21:16
blackburnuh21:16
blackburnjust now?21:16
@sonney2khttps://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc201321:16
gsomixsonney2k: wohooo!21:16
blackburnI thought a hour more21:17
blackburn:D21:17
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n4nd0twitter doesn't trust I am human... interesting21:19
@sonney2kblackburn, http://shogun-toolbox.org/21:19
@sonney2kupdated :D21:19
@sonney2kblackburn, please write some announcement on the mailinglist...21:20
blackburnsonney2k: ok21:20
anthrax512Hi to all, I'm looking for a mentor to GSoC21:21
@sonney2kanthrax512, then tell us what you want to do and we will find you someone...21:21
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blackburnhaha oh my god that's fast21:23
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anthrax512my main skill is Python, so I can do the "Develop interactive machine learning demos" and "mloss.org and mldata.org integration" tasks21:23
@sonney2kblackburn, there is a reason for that - currently only ~20 accepted orgs are shown21:23
@sonney2ksimply because they haven't all submitted their profile page yet21:23
@sonney2kso we appear on the top21:23
blackburnsonney2k: >30 already21:24
blackburn4221:24
n4nd0aah the profile thing21:24
@sonney2kanthrax512, then I would suggest you start to familiarize with shogun and read the task description and start doing some simple stuff already21:24
@sonney2kblackburn, 20 minutes back it was ~1021:25
@sonney2kblackburn, once you have sent the email have a look at what I've written for shogun21:25
@sonney2kblackburn, maybe you have some ideas how to improve...21:25
blackburnsonney2k: written wherE?21:25
@sonney2kblackburn, didn't you get the acceptance email?21:26
blackburnsonney2k: I did21:26
@sonney2kthe first link21:26
anthrax512@sonney2k, and then I should show some results in the end of april, and you'll make your decision, right?21:27
blackburnsonney2k:  You need to be a organization administrator for Shogun Machine Learning Toolbox to access this page.21:27
@sonney2kblackburn, well log in with your *new* shogun thingy21:32
@sonney2knot with your old student account21:32
blackburnsonney2k: yeah probably that's the reason21:32
@sonney2kblackburn, if that doesn't work I will ask at #gsoc21:33
blackburnsonney2k: I think you need to add me there somehow21:34
blackburnsonney2k: when I open 'my connections' I see nothing21:34
@sonney2kanthrax512, it usually works like this: students check out what they are interested in and already now familiarize with the task and start contributing(!). Then you write a proposal and then it will be ranked by all mentors.21:34
@sonney2kblackburn, I also have no connections21:34
@sonney2kblackburn, but do you see shogun?21:34
blackburnsonney2k: I see only application21:34
@sonney2kblackburn, yes then please open the link in the email21:35
@sonney2kthe first one21:35
blackburnThe organization with the ID shogun already exists and hence you cannot create a new organization profile for the same ID. If you are actually looking for editing this organization profile please click here.21:35
blackburnYou need to be a organization administrator for Shogun Machine Learning Toolbox to access this page.21:35
blackburnsonney2k: ^21:35
@sonney2kblackburn, what is your link id?21:35
@sonney2kand please paste the link you click on21:35
blackburnsonney2k: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/profile/organization/google/gsoc2013/shogun21:35
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@sonney2kblackburn, waht is your link id again?21:42
blackburnsonney2k: username?21:42
@sonney2kblackburn, link id21:42
@sonney2kyes username21:42
@sonney2k(maybe)21:42
blackburnsonney2k: sergey_lisitsyn21:42
@sonney2kblackburn, I asked carols21:44
@sonney2kbtw 177 organizations in21:44
@sonney2kblackburn, carols said I should ask in melange21:45
@sonney2k#melange21:45
@sonney2khmmhh21:46
@sonney2kblackburn, did you use that username in last years too?21:46
blackburnsonney2k: yes I didn't change anything21:46
@sonney2ktoo bad21:48
@sonney2kthen that certainly is the problem21:48
@sonney2khmmhh I am getting email from students already...21:49
blackburnsonney2k: oh you will get a lot21:49
blackburndue to simplicity of some tasks21:49
@sonney2krandom forests...21:50
blackburnsonney2k: ahh..21:50
@sonney2klooks like it will take the melange guys some time21:50
blackburnsonney2k: is that a problem? we can wait a little, right?21:51
@sonney2kblackburn, well announce the thing nevertheless - you can do edits later if you are not happy21:54
@sonney2kblackburn, that is what I wrote21:54
@sonney2khttps://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/shogun21:54
blackburnsonney2k: I am quite ok with it21:54
@sonney2kblackburn, n4nd0 I also updated http://shogun-toolbox.org/page/Events/workshop201321:54
@sonney2kblackburn, btw chris jsut told me he won't be at the workshop :/21:54
n4nd0good21:54
blackburnsonney2k: did you receive anything from the big boss?21:55
n4nd0oh21:55
n4nd0I meant good for the update, not for Chris news :S21:55
blackburnsonney2k: oh bad I won't met him21:55
n4nd0sonney2k: what about changing planning to partipate to partipating http://shogun-toolbox.org/page/Events/gsoc201321:55
blackburnn4nd0: sure please change ;)21:55
n4nd0blackburn: let me fix my computer first please :S21:56
n4nd0I am even scared21:56
n4nd0idk what the hell I have done21:56
blackburnn4nd0: ahh yeah sure21:56
@sonney2kn4nd0, no add a new news item21:56
@sonney2ksaying that we are in21:56
n4nd0sonney2k: ok21:56
@sonney2kkeep the other :D21:56
@sonney2kn4nd0, like here http://shogun-toolbox.org/page/Events/gsoc201221:56
@sonney2keven with the image :D21:56
n4nd0sure hehe21:57
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n4nd0three hurrays for me, I created a new group in my system for printer rights21:59
n4nd0and add myself to the group with usermode -G blah blah21:59
n4nd0usermod*21:59
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@sonney2kn4nd0, and?22:07
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n4nd0sonney2k: it seems there is an option called append I should have used22:08
n4nd0sonney2k: now I am happily just belonging to the group for printers22:08
n4nd0I cannot sudo anything....22:08
@sonney2kn4nd0, why didn't you edit /etc/groups manually?22:08
n4nd0I thought it was probably better to do it using the command22:09
n4nd0if any other file needed to be updated22:09
n4nd0I am young and stupid :'(22:10
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@sonney2kblackburn, well done22:23
@sonney2kso we have planet d.o / g+ / twitter / mailinglist announcemnts22:24
@sonney2kblackburn, maybe we should send an email to machine learning news too?22:25
@sonney2kin any case what is missing is the workshop call for papers22:25
blackburnsonney2k: debian have the same thing with backup22:27
blackburnsonney2k: see #melange22:27
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@sonney2kblackburn, try again22:30
@sonney2kI've re-added you22:30
blackburnsonney2k: received email22:30
@sonney2kor tried at least22:30
@sonney2kcheck if you can access the link22:30
@sonney2kblackburn, btw please email each and every mentor telling them how to register...22:31
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blackburnohh yeah ok22:31
@sonney2kblackburn, can you finally access the page?22:32
bogdanchi! I would be interested in participating in GSOC working on a shogun project, but I do not have any ML knowleadge now. Though, I am willing to learn about it. Do you think that is it possible for me to solve one task in this condition?22:33
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n4nd0bogdanc: Yeah, sure. There are a couple of tasks that do not require much specific ML learning.22:33
blackburnsonney2k: still no22:34
n4nd0ML knowledge more than learning hehe22:34
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naywhayarehello there.  long-time lurker and maintainer of another ML library that got accepted into GSoC here.  quick question: how many applications am I going to end up with?  1/10/100/1000/10 billion?22:34
blackburnnaywhayare: hah congrats!22:34
naywhayareI've not done GSoC before so I have no idea what to expect.  any help is appreciated :)22:34
blackburnnaywhayare: yeah about 10-12 billion22:34
blackburn;)22:34
naywhayarereally?  I wouldn't be too surprised.  I'm trying to figure out what level of filtering I'll need to be doing22:35
blackburnnaywhayare: we received a bit more than 100 last  year I think22:35
bogdancso I have no real chance with a task involving ML?22:35
@sonney2kblackburn, IIRC 50-6022:35
blackburnsonney2k: oh my mistake22:36
naywhayareoh wow, okay.  our humble little outfit surely can't handle any more than 10 (I suspect my other "mentors" are in it for the free t-shirts)22:36
blackburnnaywhayare: what is your org?22:36
blackburnbogdanc: there is always a chance22:37
naywhayareblackburn: mlpack22:37
blackburnnaywhayare: nice website!22:38
blackburn:)22:38
naywhayareI need to polish up the application page quite a lot (judging by the other pages I've looked at) but I got something up there "just for now"22:38
naywhayarethanks.  I wanted to keep it super-minimal, but in some respects it's *too* minimal22:38
bogdancI know that there is a chance, but I don't want to set targets I can't reach. that's why I asked you who have much more experience in the field22:38
@sonney2knaywhayare, it's like windows 8 isn't it :D22:39
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@sonney2knaywhayare, since you are in too - maybe we can have some synergies22:39
naywhayarehaha.  "looks great on mobile devices"22:39
blackburnbogdanc: well ML is not that hard22:39
@sonney2knaywhayare, at least with say being able to read your / our data formats or exchanging simple models22:40
naywhayaresonney2k: if you have any ideas, I'd be glad to work together.  in some aspects shogun and mlpack are orthogonal22:40
n4nd0bogdanc: Sure. Take a look to the ideas page and see what would be suitable for you. For example I think you don't need to be a ML guru for the demos project http://www.shogun-toolbox.org/page/Events/gsoc2013_ideas#demos22:40
naywhayareah, now there is a good idea.  we haven't settled on a saved model format completely yet (rudimentary efforts are xml)22:40
n4nd0bogdanc: and it may be a good fit to starting learning about it.22:40
naywhayaremost of the tasks mlpack does are one-time-use models so there's not much use saving a model22:41
blackburnnaywhayare: I also have a template C++ library on dimension reduction if you are interested :)22:41
naywhayarecan you point me towards it?  I'd be interested in poking at it22:42
blackburnnaywhayare: https://github.com/lisitsyn/tapkee22:42
naywhayarejust wish I had more time to really look into all the things I wanted to :-S22:42
blackburnnaywhayare: it is the core of dimension reduction in shogun22:43
deerishiany suggestions on projects involving ICA/BSS and signal procesing?22:43
blackburndeerishi: suggestions like?22:43
naywhayareah, it has the ridiculously ugly john langford cover tree code22:43
blackburnnaywhayare: it works.. :)22:43
naywhayareit does, but it ain't pretty :)22:43
n4nd0deerishi: There is actually a project idea on ICA and BSS :) Not sure if you meant that.22:43
deerishii meant that22:44
deerishi:)22:44
n4nd0deerishi: aham! All right.22:44
blackburnnaywhayare: I have had a bad experience with 'prettier' covertree https://github.com/DNCrane/Cover-Tree22:44
@sonney2kpretty != working != fast22:45
blackburnsonney2k: my other code is much prettier and working and fast ;)22:45
n4nd0deerishi: mmm so regarding ICA, I know there is some open source implementations of ICA strategies (in sklearn for example). You could check them out and try to get something into Shogun as an initial patch.22:45
naywhayaremy thought has been that a lot of the stuff jl did, while perhaps faster, is only incrementally (i.e. 1-3%) faster than a much prettier counterpart22:45
naywhayarethe fact that it's not documented at all is also a big problem.  it took me forever to realize what he was doing with the empty lists to avoid mallocs22:46
@sonney2kblackburn, that is also interesting https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/pagmo22:46
n4nd0blackburn, naywhayare, sonney2k : why do people dislike JL implementations? :)))22:46
@sonney2kn4nd0, I don't22:46
blackburnn4nd0: because they are .. let me cite naywhayare .. 'ridiculiously ugly'22:46
n4nd0hehe22:46
naywhayaren4nd0: 'cause they don't implement what's in the paper, they're ugly, undocumented, unmaintained, and not particularly usable in other settings22:46
naywhayarealso not generalized at all and specific to only one task22:47
naywhayare...I have *particularly* strong opinions about jl code22:47
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n4nd0naywhayare: hehe I agree with you in that it is rather hard to go through22:47
naywhayarethe funniest part is that in my experience, I have yet to find a dataset where cover trees perform faster than well-written kd trees (the construction cost is usually huge)22:47
blackburnI have to second that guys22:47
@sonney2knaywhayare, heh - I guess the same I have about TJs code (joachims...)22:47
naywhayarecuriously the cover tree paper did not include comparisons with kd-trees.22:47
bogdancI have noticed that one too as being an easier one. but how about something under machine learning tasks?22:47
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blackburnnaywhayare: oh there is a strong reason why I use covertree22:48
blackburnit is a metric tree22:48
n4nd0bogdanc: mmm sure, check them out and see what you like22:48
@sonney2kbogdanc, and maybe try out some graphical / interactive examples of shogun to see whats going on22:49
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blackburnnaywhayare: as I needed something that works with arbitrary distance/kernel it was very important for me22:49
naywhayarethis is true22:49
naywhayarealthough in that case I do suspect ball trees would still be faster than cover trees22:49
naywhayarebut I haven't thoroughly taken a look22:49
blackburnnaywhayare: yeah I just didn't get proper ball tree code yet22:50
blackburn:)22:50
bogdancso with enough time and energy invested, it is faisable for a beginner to solve one of those, right?22:50
naywhayare:)22:50
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n4nd0bogdanc: Yeah, I think so.22:50
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n4nd0be careful with the one called "Implement estimators of large-scale sparse Gaussian densities"22:51
deerishi_n4nd0: thank you will check that out22:51
blackburnhahaha22:51
blackburnn4nd0: good22:51
n4nd0we were not sure if someone around here will be a suitable student :D22:51
n4nd0including mentors hehe22:51
@sonney2kbogdanc, but it certainly depends on your skills (math, coding, ...)22:52
@sonney2kblackburn, hmmhh I don't see orange yet22:54
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@sonney2kin the accepted list...22:54
blackburnhow many are in already?22:54
@sonney2kblackburn, ahh btw please CC me when you email mentors so that I know - thanks22:54
@sonney2kblackburn, ~9022:54
bogdancok, thank you very much!22:54
blackburnsonney2k: yes sure22:54
n4nd0sonney2k, blackburn : what do you think are the project priorities this year?22:55
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@sonney2kn4nd0, gsoc wise you mean?22:55
n4nd0sonney2k: yes22:55
blackburnn4nd0: world domination as usual22:55
@sonney2kin general it IMHO it really is accessibility22:55
@sonney2kand that :D22:55
n4nd0hehe22:55
medeeiiphello everyone I'm new to this project and want to build shogun on windows. I can see a cmakeList in /src but it is creating a sln file with a project only with the cpp files. How can I get also the .h files inside the project?22:56
n4nd0mmm I think we have an errata in the ideas list22:56
@sonney2kn4nd0, now that we have proper infrastructure we should be able to generate some nice applications / doc :D22:56
@sonney2kn4nd0, not so unlikely...22:57
@sonney2kmedeeiip, shogun & windows is tough - cygwin is the only thing I ever got to work22:57
n4nd0sonney2k: the second project in accesibility list. We removed from index but not from descriptions22:57
n4nd0medeeiip: Unfortunately cmake integration in shogun is far from complete. I believe someone started sth, but nothing else.22:58
@sonney2kn4nd0, indeed this format reading stuff is covered in fas reading and writing shogun features22:58
blackburnnaywhayare: so let me know if you would like to integrate my stuff - I will assist all the things if so22:59
medeeiipIf I create a new cmakelist is it possible ? I mean to say is there any more additional dependency?22:59
@sonney2kmedeeiip, if you get it to work we would be most happy to use it!22:59
@sonney2kmedeeiip, and merge your patch22:59
n4nd0sonney2k: let's take it out then. Are you editing or should I?22:59
@sonney2kn4nd0, please do22:59
@sonney2kmedeeiip, well there are a couple but there are no hard dependencies in shogun23:00
n4nd0blackburn: you are not changing anything in ideas either,are you?23:00
blackburnn4nd0: no I do not change anything23:00
naywhayareblackburn: I'll take a look, but I have a ton on my plate.  I'll probably have a chance to look into it in a couple weeks23:01
blackburnnaywhayare: yes sure - just let me know if you (would like) and we will discuss it then23:03
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naywhayareblackburn: one interesting thing to think about for DR may be this:23:04
naywhayaresome DR methods like MVU are based on semidefinite programs (SDPs)23:04
naywhayareabout ten years ago there was some work by Monteiro and Burer which reformulated SDPs as low-rank SDPs23:05
blackburnnaywhayare: yeah may be I'll allocate a gsoc task for that as I lack MVU23:05
naywhayarewhich are not convex like SDPs, so you don't get to use all the nice convex optimization theory, but in practice they run faster (i.e. O(N^2 log N) not O(N^3)) and give solutions nearly as good23:05
naywhayareso applying LRSDPs to MVU has reportedly been done by my "predecessor" (Vasiloglou... the paper is out there somewhere)23:06
naywhayarebut I haven't ever managed to reproduce the results though I have tried quite extensively23:06
blackburngood to know, thanks naywhayare23:06
naywhayarea working LRSDP implementation applied to Weinberger's usual 'formulate-it-as-an-SDP' works (and other people who do the same) could provide some really good speedup for that23:06
naywhayareI have a working LRSDP implementation in mlpack (at least, it passes the simple tests) but I could never get it to work for any ML task23:07
naywhayareanyway, perhaps approaching it again from a fresh start would yield better results23:07
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gsomixtime to read ideas page23:34
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n4nd0yuhu, I fixed it now :)23:47
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 09 00:00:10 2013